Lucas and Steve discuss the new and old trends of anime in movie theaters.
Disclaimer:The views and opinions expressed by the participants in this chatlog are not the views of Anime News Network. Spoiler Warning for discussion of the series ahead.
Fire Punch and Chainsaw Man are available on the Shonen Jump App. DAN DA DAN is on Netflix, Hulu, and Crunchyroll. Chainsaw Man is on Crunchyroll and Hulu. Dragon Ball Super: Broly is available on Hulu and Crunchyroll. Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba - The Movie: Mugen Train is on Crunchyroll. Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba Infinity Castle and WITCH WATCH are upcoming theatrical releases. Jujutsu Kaisen 0 is on Netflix and Crunchyroll. Char's Counterattack is on Netflix
Lucas
Steve, I don't know if you watched the Oscars last weekend, but I played it in the background while working on dinner. In between a far too long James Bond tribute and the Best Picture award (correctly) going to Anora, a thought occurred. The Western movie landscape is changing and is about to feature more anime than ever!
In light of this emerging trend, will you be the Ebert to my Siskel and chat about the rise of anime movies tied to ongoing IP, explore the motivations behind this development, and postulate to me on how it will affect this medium that we hold so dear?
Steve
Of course! I'm something of a cinema enjoyer myself. I was rooting for The Substance to take home the big prize because it was the most anime out of all the nominees. However, I'm certainly not upset about the Sean Baker sweep, either. And more to the point, the <>real anime we're getting in theaters is indeed multiplying. Never before have American audiences had so many opportunities to watch Nicole Kidman wax poetic about the Japanese cartoons they just paid $15 to watch on a huge silver screen. But as with all things in life, quantity does not guarantee quality.
Oh god, that fight scene to kick off the third act of The Substance!?? I told my partner as we walked out of the theater that the people behind this movie have definitely watched anime!
The growing trend I'm alluding to is twofold. For the past couple of years, several popular anime have chosen to adapt a portion of their ongoing story as a theatrical release, rather than episodically. On top of that, and even more recently, we're beginning to see some high-profile anime release the first few episodes of an upcoming season as a limited screening in U.S. theaters.
What do you make of these pretty significant industry shifts, Steve?
We can start by acknowledging that these trends didn't come from nowhere. There's a rich history of franchises where TV, film, and everything in between intertwine. UC Gundam is a perfect example. It started with a TV show, was compiled into a set of three films, and later received the film-only sequel Char's Counterattack. Audiences, therefore, have been primed for a while to hop between the couch and the theater to get their anime fix.
Agreed! I remember catching a couple of the Pokémon movies in theaters as a kid, and I remember a big event being made out of any given Dragon Ball movie making it to the big screen in the U.S.
Oh I definitely dragged my parents to the first Pokémon movie.
You had to go! That was the world premiere of Donphan, and they gave away promotional cards!!!
These specific IPs also Pavlov'd me into thinking that theatrical releases for ongoing anime are exclusively non-canon, but that's increasingly not the case anymore.
The idea of "canon" is fun and slippery. Looking back, a lot of anime creators treated the innate separation between TV and film as an opportunity to break those boundaries. Is End of Evangelion more canon than the TV ending? Is Adolescence of Utena a sequel, or its own thing? Do we even need to care about how the Tenchi Muyo films might fit?
And that makes some logical sense, too. With a TV show, you're telling a story in sequential and largely uniform chunks that are aired on a predictable basis, so you can reasonably expect the audience to keep up with it. Before the streaming age, however, it was a lot more fraught to expect the same familiarity with a movie that may have only been in theaters for a month. The solution is you make the movies related to the story, but not essential, i.e., not canon.
And I liked that! It offered more space for experimentation. But, like you said, the environment has shifted.
That's an excellent point! We're so ingrained in the streaming age now that I forget that catching up on a show in time for a movie release used to be pretty challenging. This would be doubly true in the U.S., where physical media releases of anime titles were super inconsistent in both selected titles and the volume of those releases.
Making a movie non-canon used to be the best way to get butts in seats, because there are always more people generally familiar with an IP than there are people caught up on said release.
Plus, generally, you want a movie to be standalone. That requires a different kind of writing than that which goes into a longer, serialized story. We've all seen how spectacularly MCU has collapsed into its navel post-Endgame.
That might seem counterintuitive to the recent rise of the anime theatrical compilations, which are neither standalone nor really movies, but they're different in several key ways.
Absolutely, except for Spy x Family: Code White, many U.S. anime film releases have either been extensions of ongoing anime IP or precursors to them. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe it was Demon Slayer: Mugen Train that both kicked off and cemented this modern moment for anime films with its success.
This is funny because Mugen Train inverted an already familiar pattern. Typically, an anime would come out, get popular, and then be edited into a film or two to reap some easy and relatively cheap theatrical rewards. And plenty of shows still do this: Bocchi the Rock, for example. Mugen Train, when it came out, appeared to be a typical sequel film following up on the first season. But, perhaps due to Demon Slayer's unprecedented popularity and cash flow, the producers realized they could also milk it in TV form. Thus, we went from the TV-> Movie pattern to Movie -> TV.
Was this a profitable idea? Obviously. Was this a good idea? Well...
While Demon Slayer was never exactly my jam, I feel for the fans who have to put up with increasingly poor pacing for the sake of executives trying to get as much blood out of that stone as possible. After all, we've got not one, not two, but THREE Infinity Castle movies ahead of us to cap off the mega-popular anime, supposedly.
Of course, this development also speaks to changing conventional wisdom in the anime industry. Decision-makers now think they can squeeze money out of hardcore fans to justify the production of more expensive movies that audiences need to be caught up on to fully understand. So far, this bet seems to be paying off for them, and, at least to the best of my knowledge, this new revenue stream seems to be making up for the waning physical media sales they used to rely on.
Sequel movies themselves aren't a new phenomenon, however. And Demon Slayer isn't alone in being a shonen anime that's choosing to adapt certain arcs into films. That's how Chainsaw Man is approaching the Reze arc later this year. The key difference here is that I fully expect us to get a TV cut of Infinity Castle after the films are finished. They will not let their golden goose die before they squeeze out every last egg from it.
Speaking personally, Mugen Train is where I fell off the Demon Slayer wagon. I felt the movie was just okay, and then I didn't appreciate that they had the gall to expect me to watch it again, piecemeal, when the second season started. Part of that was due to Mugen Train presenting itself as a bona fide movie. There's a subtle yet important difference between that and the way more recent compilations have been produced and advertised.
You make a good point! Another big offender in this regard is the Dragon Ball: Battle of Gods and Resurrection F movies that jumpstarted the Dragon Ball Super anime. Hardcore and casual fans alike were DEVASTATED to learn that the first two dozen or so episodes of Super were set to be slower and more poorly animated versions of those films.
On the flip side, Jujutsu Kaisen 0 is maybe the best installment in this latest canon anime movie trend. Because it adapts the canon JJK precursor manga, it works as a standalone entry point to the series and a required viewing for folks who want to get everything they possibly can out of the anime.
And stuff like the DAN DA DAN and GQuuuuuuX previews work for me because they're honest about what they are. Nine times out of ten, if you ask me whether I want to watch the first couple of episodes of a highly anticipated show in the comfort and splendor of my local AMC, my answer is going to be, "Yes!" No need to pretend they're real films. I won't turn down an opportunity to watch my cartoons with surround sound.
These releases are infinitely closer to promotional events than what anyone would call cinema, but they're still cool! Plus, the whole "three-episode test" nomenclature has been a part of the anime fandom for so long that it makes sense that somebody would eventually have the idea to drop those first three episodes together as a super-marketable bundle.
That said, I'm not sure how commonplace this promotional theatrical run will become. WITCH WATCH is set to have a similar promotional theatrical premiere, but I'm not sure it'll have the level of spectacle or IP fame to be as successful as DAN DA DAN: First Encounter or GQuuuuuuX.
Everyone wants to jump on the train once you get a few successful examples. As far as cash-grab marketing gimmicks are concerned, however, I'm on board with these. Not to get too Nicole Kidman about this stuff, but there is something special about the theater. Watching the opening of GQuuuuuuX, gasping in delight at what it was doing, and experiencing that in a crowd of people who were also on the same page as me—that's cinema.
It also sure beats watching the rest on Amazon Prime (yuck).
If I understand correctly, not only do folks have to have watched the original Gundam anime from 1979 to understand everything this new anime is doing, but they ALSO have to drop $15 a month for a Prime subscription to watch it legally. GQuuuuuuX looks rad, but that will stymie interest in this new release.
Or maybe the folks at Sunrise will be cool as hell, again, and drop the entire series for free on YouTube after it wraps.
That would be nice! I have a feeling our cohosts might end up chatting about the specifics of this streaming kerfuffle later in the week, so I'll leave them to it. As far as accessibility is concerned, there's an irony in these theatrical previews, from a certain angle, arguably being more available to the general audience than the current fractured streaming landscape. Even a wide release is not perfect and doesn't cover the entire country. But on the other hand, I'm far more inclined to pop over to the multiplex than sign up for another damn subscription service. I'm done with apps. No more apps.
I couldn't agree more! As watching anime has become a growing online experience, we need more than just conventions to get anime fans together. On top of making a new release feel special, these anime preview screenings get fans together in a way that feels increasingly important.
Good point! Film screenings were some of my favorite parts of conventions pre-COVID, and the communal anime experience was the whole draw of anime clubs back in the day. While not a perfect substitution, these compilations evoke some of those feelings. Just a bunch of us nerds getting together and seeing a few episodes of something new and hopefully exciting.
Damn, Steve, that's powerful. If AMC ever lets Nicole Kidman's contract lapse, you could take her place in the pre-screening promo reel!
I do hope these theatrical screenings continue in some form or another. As we've found out lately, it turns out that it's incredibly important for individual and societal health for people to feel like they're a part of a community they can physically connect with. Also, the more anime companies think that folks in the U.S. are willing to pay for cool anime events and activations, the more likely they'll be to bring more cool stuff stateside!
Moreover, suppose the industry is growing larger, consolidating power, and attracting the attention of the gargantuan conglomerates that control every single other aspect of our lives. In that case, we may as well reap the rewards where we can find them. Nothing wrong with stopping to smell the roses or munching on hot buttered popcorn while watching a ghost steal a kid's testicles.
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